December 17, 2007
Planning Board Minutes
Oswego Town Hall
Chair: Jeffrey Boyer
Town Board Members: Judy Sabin-Watson, Francis Dellamano,
Lee Phillips, Barry Pritchard, James Finn
Attorney To The Board: Stephen Greene, Jr.
At approximately 7:00 PM, Francis Dellamano, filling in for Chairman Jeffrey Boyer, called the meeting to order.
Those in attendance were:
Approval of November 19, 2007 Minutes:
Fran asked for a motion to approve the Minutes of November 19, 2007. Lee Phillips made the motion, and Judy Watson seconded it. All ayes. Motion carried
Approval of December 5, 2007 Committee Meeting:
Jim Finn made a motion that the December 5, 2007 Committee Meeting be approved. Barry Pritchard seconded the motion. All ayes. Motion carried.
Application #2007-14 - David Washburn - Special Permit for New Business, Sign Permit and Site Plan:
Fran said we should get some basic information first. We should go through the Zoning Permit on the sign. The first thing that Fran saw was the zoning as commercial, and we don't have commercial in the town so that has to be updated. The existing sign says temporary - what does that mean? Dave Washburn said Donna the former hairdresser there had a sign up on that pole, which we are going to remove and put our sign there. Fran said existing sign - 36 square feet. Dave said it is 6í x 6í originally. Fran asked what he meant by originally. Fran said there are some things on this application that need to be clarified. He is not satisfied with the sign application as there are some mistakes. Dave said there was an existing sign there. Fran said the dimensions are not correct. Fran asked if anyone has stopped there and went in. Dave said Wayne had been there numerous times, and Margie has been there. Fran said he had been there. He said the sign is free standing, There are two pieces of channel on it, so wonder how free standing it is. Must have been ready to fall over, and someone welded some channel on it. Dave said they have dug around it, and there is concrete. Fran asked why it is braced like that. Dave said it is a precaution. There is a 6 foot diameter concrete base. Judy asked if the sign on the building is on the application. Dave said yes, but we don't have an application for that. Lee asked how high the sign is above the ground. Dave said it is at least 12 feet to the bottom of the sign. Lee also asked if the sign will interfere with anyone seeing, it's high enough up in the air. Fran said as to the boundary lines, we'll have to look at on the Site Plan.
Fran asked Dave what he plans to do there. Dave said we are building a small restaurant - basically hot dogs, hamburgers, soups, and salads. There will be take out to the university. It will be a neighborhood type restaurant. We have seating for about 30 people. It won't be a lot of eating crowd. It will be mostly be come in and out, and take out. We will also have seating out front. Lee asked if they would be open year around, and Dave said yes. Judy asked if they would have a liquor license, and Dave said no.
Fran asked if he was the owner of the land, and Dave said yes. Dave also added that he will be employing about 12 local folks.
Fran said Dave stated on the application that he didn't do anything outside, but saw that he put some concrete out on the porch. Dave said he had to level things off to the doors. He said he had asked Wayne if he had to have a permit to put in a concrete patio, and was told no.
Fran said he stopped there and has a real problem. It is right at an intersection. How are you going to get your stuff delivered? Dave said they have a delivery area, that will be striped. He said he used to deliver for Pepsi so knows all the ins and outs. Fran told Dave for us to make a decision, he needs to get a survey with the parking spots in there -- what you have here isn't adequate, it is just sketches. We also have to show the boundaries. Fran said he thinks that the Board should go there and meet after the survey is done.
Dave said the whole thing is very frustrating. He wondered who they would talk to that would know what to do - we have been here a million times. He has talked to the Health Department. Fran told him he should have gotten a Site Plan Review. That is what we are trying to do now. Dave said we were told we were all set. It was a restaurant before. Fran said if Dave could get an engineer to design the parking lot, as parking is a problem. If the restaurant is going to seat 30 people, then there are 8 or 10 cars right there. And you are going to have trucks to deliver goods. They'll have to mess around with that road there. Dave said he had talked to all the delivery truck drivers. He had already told them there will be no deliveries during the hours we will be in business. They aren't going to open until 11:00 o'clock.
Kevin said clearly on the site plan review and clearly based on the County 239 review, a resubmission site plan drawn to scale showing the parking, and ingress and egress, and that as Fran says is a formal site plan drawn out by a licenses land surveyor. There are plenty in the area who would do it. Fran says if there is not enough parking, they will be parking on Baylis, and that is a highly residential area. Jim Finn said we should provide Mr. Washburn with a copy of the letter from the county as that pretty well explains it in a nutshell what is needed.
Judy said she has an issue with the signage. There should be applications for 2 signs - the one on the building, and then the free standing sign. Dave asked who could explain this form to us, and walk us through it, as to the signage.
Kevin again stated there are a number of land surveyors who have come before this Board, and they are all local. Fran said we also need someone who can plot out the parking. Barry said the land surveyors can do that. Kevin said the DOT would be involved in this too. Dave said he understands the regulations, but wants the Board to understand his frustrations. He said they put their life savings into this restaurant, only to find out we are not all set. We have sent all the letters out Certified Mail at a huge expense to us, would we have to renotify them for the next meeting? Fran said since we don't have adequate information to base anything on, just postpone the hearing. Fran said he thinks the neighbors should be notified again. Kevin said that would not be his opinion. Dave said that would leave us bankrupt, as he spent almost $1.000 on Certified Mail.
Kevin said it is this Board's decision how to move forward. We have asked these folks to commit a rather large expense perhaps prematurely. I don't think we can necessarily charge these folks with further obligation to resubmit a notice when they have done what we have asked them to do in terms of submitting a plan. The Board is well within its jurisdiction to ask for a revised Site Plan similar to what the County is saying. The alternative is public notice which is in compliance with Town Law. Dr Rabozzi is here and wants to be heard.
Fran said we will complete the Public Hearing tonight and then we do a public notice in the paper to notify the people of the updated plan. Everyone was in agreement with Fran.
Fran asked the public to make comments on the proposed Hot Dog Restaurant.
The first thing he said is that he likes hot dogs, as long as they are Hoffmann's and not the ones from Buffalo. He asked why it was Mr. Washburn's responsibility to hand deliver the statement that I am looking at? Why doesn't the Town mail information to us. Another question he had was why the Planning Board didn't schedule the meeting before all the renovations were done? Even the blacktop in the parking area, which was never there. They have done beautiful work on the front of the building. It was a big expense, and he asked why after the fact. They have thousands of dollars invested, I am sure. He was curious as to how many households were contacted. Dave said it was about 192 households. Dr. Rabozzi said 41 cents for a postage stamp - Dave said they were sent Certified, Return Receipt Requested which came to $5.21 each.
Fran asked if there are any other people who want to comment on the issue. Mr. Rabozzi asked why the Board didn't go after this vigorously. Lee Phillips said we don't have anything to do with it until the application comes to us. This is the first time we had anything to do with this. Barry said we talked at our September meeting as to what was going on. But we were told almost the same thing.
Fran told the Washburn's to get everything together, and come to the next meeting, which is January 21, 2008.
Discussion - Material Receive from Trygve Stout:
Fran asked Mr. Stout to come up front. He asked Mr. Stout if this was for a Site Plan Review, and Mr. Stout said he had no idea. He said Wayne showed up with a couple of sheets of paper told him he had to turn them in. That was 7 months after the fact. Judy asked if he is going to own this, and Mr. Stout says he owns the entire tract. Judy asked if he was going to sell some off, and he said none of the property is for sale. Fran asked if it was going to be a private road, and Mr. Stout said yes, a private tract. Fran said it is an R-4 out there, and Mr. Stout said it is commercial. Fran said there is no such thing as commercial. Mr. Stout said he had a conversation with the attorneys. Years ago when we established Stout Financial, it had to change to accommodate the commercial business. That was one of the very first things we had to do, and it took us quite a while. He said there was a Variance. Fran said if he had a variance, it would be in the Town Records someplace. Fran asked who owned the property previously, and was told Zagame Trust down in Florida. Fran asked what we are going to do - we have to find out what the Variance was. Steve said he is sure it was done. Mr. Stout said it was in 2003 or 2004. Marge said that was before she got in, so she wouldn't have it in the minutes. Judy said she still has a lot of documentation on this. Mr. Stout said he went on for a year and a half before all the proper channels were done. Judy said she has no doubt in her mind that everything was done. Steve stated we should go through the Site Plan Review and see what was done. Fran said he noticed in the application - Agricultural Data Statement - #7 - "Is the property located within 500 feet of an agricultural district" and it says Yes. Mr. Stout said it is not within 500 feet. The building sets back 350 feet, and behind me is an unused farm. It is a field that belongs to the Oleyourryk's. Fran said across the road is an agricultural district. Mr. Stout said there is a muck across the street from his property, That property sets 350 feet off the road. Behind him is a stone wall. He has the required distance between his property and that building. Behind him is an unused field, and if you cross 104 there is a place where they store onions, then you get down to the muck, and to the left of that is a storage building. There is an apple orchard on one side with a trash trailer that has garbage outside, and the other side is Mr. Yule.
Fran asked what the width is of Stout Drive. Mr. Stout said there is a developed 14 foot drive. Fran asked if it would be adequate for fire trucks, and Mr. Stout said yes. Fran asked according to our Land Use Control, what is our responsibility with this. Steve said it is on the Site Plan. Judy said she was concerned that he was going to remain the owner of it. Mr. Stout said they are designed as patio homes for retirees. The first two buildings are spoken for. And the one in the back a doctor is interested in. It is designed for older people, easy living.
Fran said Marge will take care of getting a copy of the variance, and will see that the application goes to the County Planning Board. So we will see you on January 21st.
Committee Meeting On United Group:
Jim Finn stated that at the Committee Meeting that there about 125 people who don't want the college housing out there, is the traffic situation where Johnson Road meets 104, and I don't think their traffic study adequately dealt with the issue. Fran said you can hire all the engineers and all the lawyers you want, you can put 50% common sense to the whole thing. Jim said he thinks he they put a 4-way stop at Mollison Road and Johnson Road, that's my gut feeling. Fran said we should take the bull by the horns and do something with Mollison Road. Barry said their had been some changes to the Site Plan. Phase II is gone now. Jim Finn said he hasn't seen a Site Plan as to where they are putting the sewer. He said he thinks if they do something with that area as to traffic stops, and lights, the people of Ontario Heights will be much happier. Barry said all of the stuff that we read in the first traffic study is still part of the SEQRA. The second pamphlet we got, is just additions to that.
Greg Herrmann said Mollison Road is a private road. The college owns it. Judy said she thinks the housing with be a feather in their cap. They want a decent place to live. They don't want to live downtown. Jim Finn said he has been trying to be in favor of this project, but so many people in Ontario Heights are against it, because of traffic. Fran said he thinks with Steve's leadership, take a positive step toward the project and traffic study.
Barry said John Condino said they had met their requirements for the SEQRA. Then this Board has to make a negative or positive declaration.
Open Board Discussion:
At approximately 8:45 PM, Lee Phillips made a motion to adjourn the meeting. Barry Pritchard seconded the motion. All ayes. Motion carried.
Secretary to Planning Board